Constitution is not the problem of this country but Selfishness – Barr. Egede

 Barrister Lucky Egede, former Director, Obasanjo Farms Limited, and Chairman/Chief Executive Officer, Supersavers Stores Limited, in this interview with him ,he spoke on Nigeria business environment, various vices that has hindered the nation’s development and other societal burning issues. Excepts:

 

Looking at this office, it is evidence based that you are a busy man and by virtue of this fact, I must say that we are here to spend time and not to waste it. Bearing this in mind, I ask; who is Lucky Egede?

 

Thank you very much Sir, Lucky Egede is a village groomed boy that lived within the confines of morals because that was what we know growing up. When we were growing up, you will always be reminded to remember the son of who you are. We were also taught to maintain our self esteem. That good name is better than all the money in the whole world, so nobody will use money to intimidate you. We were also taught not to look for money, rather, we should look for what we can do for people and money will follow you. Those are the ethics that I grow up as a person coming from the rural background of Ewuru. My parents were both famers and I attended public school all through – from Uwefo primary school Ewuru, Agbor, I went to Elahor Grammar School, another local school in Oriomo Local Government Area. I attended Bendel state University then, now Ambrose Ali University in Ekpoma, Edo state.

 

We were in the second set. People referred to us as glorified secondary school and all manner of things. But that did not discourage us as it will to most people today. When people try to drag you down, you prove a point by taking yourself up. I was in the faculty of law. What we did was that in our first set, the first set we sent to the law school produced the best overall-the 1986 set. Let people come from Cambridge, Harvard and from everywhere, we all meet at the Law school, that is the testing point, all we were set to do was to prove a point.  I was in the second set, 1987set at the Law School, 1733 candidates; we were 32 second Class Upper, no first class in that year.

 

What were we trying to do? We were all brought up to prove positive points.  When somebody tries to drag you down by saying that you are from a gloried secondary, you can prove to him that your school is better than Harvard. Let them come to the same law school, under the same environment, given the same opportunity; they are not meant to be better. And when you come to the business world today, you can see that it reflects. For example, Tony Elumelu was in the first set, the 1986 set of Ekpoma. I was in the second set and there are so many that you can name, like the nation’s current Minister for Budget was in the first set of Bendel state University Ekpoma, Festus Keyamo was so much our Junior. We have produced people who are changing the face of the nation today from that same university people once referred to as glorified secondary school

So, what are we taking away from this? It is not what the people call you; it is what you call yourself. Nobody can reduce you if don’t reduce yourself.

 

So, looking at this account, it says one thing; you owe the school a lot. What is the Alumni Association doing to ensure that this quality does not go down or adulterated?

What we are doing is impacting the nation. We are not specific about the university.  What people do is  I came out of this university, therefore, I owe the university a duty. I am a product of Nigeria and when I celebrated my 50th birthday, I looked at life and classified into three.

 

From zero to 25 years, I called the learning years. Those are the years where you are from your parents, they are training you. You gain admission, school is training you. You do your National Youth Service, is all training.  From 26 to 50years, you’re earning years. You are doing everything; what can I eat, what can I wear? Should I buy clothes? Should I buy car? All these things are within the 26 to 50 years. After the age of 50 years, from 51 until God calls us home, I call those years our returning years; years of returning to society. You have collected learning from the society, you have collected earnings from the society, it is your time to return to the society. You invest in the society.

 

I left school and somebody employed me and at 51, I should employ somebody. So, I set a target of creating one thousand jobs within ten years from the age of 50 years. I have started pursuing it. So we are about 420 now, we couldn’t meet our target but it is good that we started and before the organization will be 10 years in February 2023, we are hoping before then, we would have reached 600 to 700 members of staff in employment of supersaver.  If we all focus on Nigeria, eventually we would find the school everywhere, whether the school you attended or the one another person attended, everyone will be beneficiaries.

 

People clamour for their tribe, their religion, those are things that destroy us. We cannot focus on Nigeria as a society and say; let’s build this nation. Everyone will be a beneficiary.  When I was growing up, nobody was talking about tribe, about alumni. You just go to school. The children of the poorest of the poor get educated and   when you get education, you become a person of impact in the society. You are able to relate to the society what the society needs. What can I put into this society?  I have taken enough out of the society. My education coming from parents that father was a farmer, mother was a farmer, and they were in the village. None of them could speak a sentence in English. You find people coming from such a background today, they are the deprived of the society because we have killed the school system, we have killed the hospital system, and we have killed the infrastructural system. You want to travel from Lagos to Ibadan, you are afraid because you don’t know whether you will get there. It was not so in the past. You travelled when there was no telephone.

 

You moved from Agbor going to school in Edo state, your parents will take it for granted that you will get there. Nobody is phoning to know whether you get there or didn’t get there.  Until you come back for holiday after three months and they are at peace, they are sure that you will get there.

 

Do you send a child now 50 kilometers away and be sure that the child will get there? No phone calls and you did not hear from the child for two or three months and you are certain that the child will be there and that he is coming back home?.

 

This is very touching, but if I may ask, what brought us to this sorry state?

 

I can say it is absolutely  Selfishness.

 

On whose part, Sir?

 

Answer; On the part of humanity. You see, I teach in the churches and I write articles. These are my contributions. No matter how busy I am pursing money, you must have time for humanity. I think; if you want to be rich, don’t look for money. Look for what you can do for people. Like if you are a journalist, assuming your organization pays you say one thousand Naira for every interview you conduct, that is the service you are rendering to the organization. Then, aspire to interview two hundred people in a month; you will get two hundred thousand naira in a month. When you interview four hundred people in a month, you get four hundred thousand naira. Just increase the number of people you serve in a month that’s all.

 

If you are frying akara, and your akara serves the population of fifty people per day, try to fry akara for one hundred or two hundred people in a day. If you increase the number of people you serve, money will follow you and everybody that have become rich all over the world, and they look for what they can do for humanity.

 

So what brought us to this sorry state is that people want to make money without adding value. If we all start looking for the value we can add to the society, for instance, if  I say I want to employ one thousand people, will I become poorer employing one thousand people? It is not possible because the way it works, I will take time to explain to you.

 

The drama I have done in the church, I have written scripts, of which I get people to act on. Assuming you know how to clap, and people come to watch your clapping because this lady knows how to clap very well. And they pay fifty thousand naira for your clap. From the fifty thousand naira, as the owner of the place where you do your clapping, I take five thousand naira and give you forty five thousand naira every month, is that a fair deal? Now, I add four more people to do the clapping, they all generate fifty thousand Naira each and I take five thousand naira in five places, I get twenty five thousand naira. So, I have moved from five to twenty five thousand naira because I have increased the number of people that I employed.

 

Meanwhile, they are still at forty five thousand naira because they have not increased the number of people they serve. So I now increase the number to ten. Each of them is still serving the same number of people and making fifty thousand each. I take five thousand naira from each of them in ten places, I get fifty thousand. The only thing that has changed is that the number of people I serve has increased to ten. I now move to number of people I serve to one hundred. They get fifty thousand naira each and I pick five thousand naira from each of them, I get five hundred thousand naira. The only thing that has changed is that I have just kept increasing the number of people that I serve.

 

When they were earning forty five naira and I was earning five thousand naira, it looked good in the eyes of the people. But by the time I get five hundred thousand naira and they are still at forty five thousand naira, they begin to call me oppressor. Have I oppressed anybody? No. I just increased the number of people I serve. So, if you are frying akara for one hundred people, the moment you change the number of people you serve to two hundred or five hundred, you become big suddenly and that is the road to wealth.  Just serve people. Look for what you do for people.  The more you do it, the richer you become. There is no magic about it. What I have explained is it not simple enough?

 

Ika Weekly; Very simple but the issue is this; what you are doing runs contrary to the belief by many about your profession. Many believe that lawyers are not good when it comes to the running of businesses.  Is that assertion correct?

 

Answer; it’s very wrong. It is people who have not interacted with lawyers. Any economy that has gone down anywhere in the world was revived by lawyers. So, if you want to wake up the country, you hand it over to a lawyer. Buhari was sick for about one hundred and ten days, and he handed over this country to Osinbajo to run, oil production rose astronomically in that period, all the banditry and Boko Haram went on holiday for that period until Buhari came back.

 

If you put a lawyer in charge, you find peace, you find prosperity. Why? Society is a product of law. It sets boundary for everybody. If a lawyer cannot regulate the society, nobody can regulate it. Before, there was the reign of myth where it is said that myth is right. That was an era. Then law came, law set boundaries. This is my compound. My neighbor has the next compound. I know I have staff, I am richer than him. Without the law, I will just pull down my fence, add his compound to my own and tell him get out. You cannot do anything. And if he talks, I will release my workers and say beat up this man. But the law forbids that. No matter how choked I am in my compound and no matter how weak my neighbor is, by law he maintains his space.  In the days of myth is right, somebody can say to you, you have married your wife for too long and it is time for me to marry her. He will beat you up and take your wife. But why will somebody not do that today?  There is law.

 

The boundary for nations, for kingdoms, for society, for individuals from one plot to another, they are all set by law. Ownership of property is set by law. Regulations of behaviors from one human being to the other are set by law. If you remove the law, there is no society. I don’t know whether you were in Lagos during the Endsars protest, law was suspended for about four days. Were you happy? Is that a society you want to live in? Nobody wants to live in a lawless society. Lawyers are trained to keep society, to run development and to build nations.

 

You know what the economy of the United States of America was when Obama took over? Just name it anywhere in the world, if the economy is so bad, give it to a lawyer, you find the difference in six months.  I have no reason to disagree. So, I concur.

Now, back to your most recent intervention ‘law and society” , you presented some alluring arguments. But then, there is this belief in some quarters that the faulty nature of the Nigeria’s constitution remains the major factor and actor fuelling disorder in this country.  Do you believe in that argument?

 

Honestly, I  don’t agree. As faulty as the constitution may be, if the human beings are orderly, such challenge will not arise. We operated parliamentary constitution, it didn’t work for us. We operated the regional constitution, it didn’t work for us.  We operated the presidential system of government, it didn’t work for us. So, there is no document you will bring to the wrong people that will not go wrong. It is not the document that is the problem, it is the people. Human beings are not interested in the reign of justice. Documents cannot make its right. The Bible is a perfect document. Is it not?  Has it been able to straighten the human conduct? No.

 

The human being just has to make up their minds to obey. The constitution is a law in its self, if we all obey it, which part of the constitution says only one should occupy all the positions. People will say that the constitution made it possible, no. We put a democracy down.  Every four years, if you oppress me too much, after four years I will vote you out. That is one of the benefits of democracy.  You can threaten a leader. You are my staff I will sack you after four years. Americans did it to Trump. As much as people trooped out, he scored the highest votes that any Republican candidate ever scored. But democrats trouped out in mass to say you must leave.

 

Leaders will begin to recognize that they are hired by the people and can be fired by the people from their offices.  But in Nigeria, we have followers that no matter how much I oppress them, at the end of four years, I give you indomie that will serve you one meal and you will sell the next four years for one plate of food –that is the Esau’s spirit. I am hungry and you are talking about development. Give me food let me eat. How many meals will you eat from that indomie for the next four years? You are eating your children’s education; you are eating your medical/health services. You are eating up infrastructure inside this plate of food.

 

So, if  as a leaders i know that after four years I will go to these people and by the time I bring indomie, they will push me down and force that indomie into my mouth, whatever constitution you present, the people will learn to behave.

 

Thank you so much Sir,  but still on the Constitution, you made reference to the first page of the constitution where it was said; ‘we the people of Nigeria’. Now, looking at the manner the military in 1999 presented the constitution, can we truly call it the people’s constitution, is it in line with your position?

 

It is not my position. I was only quoting. I quoted as follows ‘we the people of Nigeria agree to give ourselves this law and live by it and this is what will govern our living.  Assuming, we are meeting now, whether we agreed to meet or we did not agree to meet, we have scheduled that by 4pm you are coming to interview me. If I met you on the road and you say ah that is Mr. Egede and you say; My name is Mr. Jerome, I want to interview you. And I start answering your questions; will it be a different answer or a different presentation than the one we booked the appointment?  So you are meeting the same person, you are getting my opinion.

 

If we say we the people of Nigeria met in one room and we gave ourselves this law.  We say ok, we never met in one room to give ourselves any law but the law has been given and we have agreed to operate it. We are seating down and we are operating it. We have not voted against it. All over the world, people revolt against what they did not want. Nigerians accept whatever that is thrown at them. When you reject things, you reject in its totality. You don’t sit down and be grumbling –take charge